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It's the Derivatives, Stupid

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yalanand
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Time to regulate
yalanand   7/31/2011 4:51:01 PM
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These new steps are being slowed, blocked, and, in some cases, rewritten by banking industry lobbyists who don't want this business to move to regulated clearinghouses and exchanges. 

Scott,

 Thanks for the post. This is really sad indeed. Looks like they have not learnt lesson even after 2008 crisis. Its high time these regulatory steps should be implemented without any further delay.

mInvestor
User Rank
Iron
Re: Time to regulate
mInvestor   7/14/2011 11:18:34 PM
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Indeed, this is a well written piece. Thank Scott.

To regulate it? Not a easy task. Unless we get another market collapse in the near future, I guess those deriatives will keep as side bet for a long time.

 

Heinrich Coup-de-Suite
User Rank
Iron
Re: Time to regulate
Heinrich Coup-de-Suite   7/14/2011 4:50:11 PM
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Regulating financial arrangements with the complexity of derivatives is somewhat like regulating the pharmaceutical industry.  Regulators have no way of knowing how a product works, only that it's bad for the patient when it doesn't.  An occasional bad reaction is expected with any medication.  A high mortality rate would probably bring on some sort of class action, but this is where the analogy fails to apply.  In the financial arena, people are willing to take their lumps.

Reckless financial dealings of high complexity are attributable in part to the floating exchange rate system underlying the global economy.  As investments are laid out, people cannot simply say, "There's not enough x to cover the losses if the venture fails," because x is the ability of a nation to be able to produce enough value over some unspecified duration of time.  Such a situation has enabled monumental achievements across the globe simply because x has been so reliable. 

Milton Friedman observed that it would be "sheer voodoo" to commit the financial transactions post-gold standard through the "needle's eye" of a single commodity such as gold, and indeed, Keynesians after the Great Depression found that the hoarding of gold thwarted their plans for a recovery.  Surely there are limits to x as well.  Perhaps it is the lesson of the age to ascertain what those limits are.

Value Hiker
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Bet the farm...
Value Hiker   7/14/2011 4:44:35 PM
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Federal Chairmen like to give a put for all invsetors free. Greenspan's put is low interest rate, lower interest rate, even lower interest rate...... Benanke's put is QE1, QE2, QE3......

It reminded me the quote from Chuck Pandit, ex-Citi CEO :"As long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance"

PredictableChaos
User Rank
Platinum
Bet the farm...
PredictableChaos   7/14/2011 1:24:33 AM
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This sounds like a casino full of bets where "heads - we win, tails the government steps in to cover our losses". All of us should have a huge problem with that type of betting - the government will lose big. If we could convince the big banks that there is no safety net - they would think twice before making a derivative bet that would sink their whole operation.

tokyogai
User Rank
Platinum
Re: I had no idea
tokyogai   7/13/2011 6:37:47 PM
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The real question is whether this will lead to another collapse. As far as I can see, we have done nothing to mitigate this problem.

icebreaker1975
User Rank
Silver
I had no idea
icebreaker1975   7/13/2011 10:56:34 AM
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that derivatives were executed in this manner.  Wow, I see why we had the collapse that we did back in '08...in my opinion, this is one of the "slickest" ways to make a dollar without going to jail...not good at all!

Value Hiker
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Time to regulate
Value Hiker   7/13/2011 9:56:41 AM
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Just like utility industry, financial industry deserved proper regualtion, if not strict one. People lived in California has a bitter memory of what can happen if a critical industry was threw into free market without regulation. In 2000, Enron finally got the deregulation approval on California's Electricity Supply, then it came the rolling black out - not because  there is not enough electricty, just because it will be convenient for Enron to milk out more money from their energy option trades. Finally Enron ended up with a loot of billions of dollars.

Free market works only when you have a set of rules that can guard the fear and greed of people, otherwise, free market becomes a casino without pit boss

 

tokyogai
User Rank
Platinum
Time to regulate
tokyogai   7/13/2011 9:02:13 AM
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Scott,

 

A well written explanantion of what goes on in the derivatives markets. It really is time to regulate these markets given the effect they have on other markets. It seems congress always is directed by special interests and has a hard time doing what makes sense. We need to push for this regulation.



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