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2011 IPO Rhythm: Pop & Fizzle

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ProfR
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Platinum
IPOs - get in and out early
ProfR   12/30/2011 7:59:16 AM
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Good article on IPOs. I think the only way to win here is to be in at the very beginning and cash out fast. Most individual investors cannot get in in the first round.

Other than that, you need to look at these stocks like any others - do their fundamentals look good, are they in growth markets, etc. Don't get caught up in the sizzle!

Phoenix
User Rank
Gold
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
Phoenix   12/30/2011 9:12:23 AM
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Yes that looks like a good strategy. However I would still be very cautious with IPOs. You never know what is going to happen specially with today's volatile market conditions. Thank you Noreen for the good analysis.

PAW
User Rank
Iron
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
PAW   12/30/2011 11:03:49 AM
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It will be interesting to watch and see how the Facebook IPO will fare next year.

Street Smart
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Platinum
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
Street Smart   12/30/2011 11:29:58 AM
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@ProfR said it and it's true:  "Most investors cannot get in on the first round."  In fact, the only way to get in on a hot offering as an individual investor is to be a VERY good client of the underwriting firm.  Even then, you will receive only enough shares (maybe 25 or so) to have bragging rights, not to make any serious money.

If a firm solicits YOU to buy stock in an IPO, my advice is RUN and don't look back!

PredictableChaos
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
PredictableChaos   12/30/2011 1:09:26 PM
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If a firm solicits YOU to buy stock in an IPO, my advice is RUN and don't look back!

@Street Smart - Good advice.  But I just might be tempted to see if there is any opportunity to short.  As Noreen shows, a fair number of IPO's move dramatically - down.

Street Smart
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
Street Smart   12/30/2011 1:57:22 PM
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Very interesting in concept, @PredictableChaos, but is it possible to short an IPO?

PredictableChaos
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPOs - get in and out early
PredictableChaos   12/30/2011 3:24:11 PM
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@Street Smart -

My comment about shorting IPO's was mostly in fun, as I prefer lower risk strategies.  But there are options chains on GRPN and ZNGA.  Could be interesting...

tokyogai
User Rank
Platinum
Nobody has cracked the code
tokyogai   12/30/2011 4:39:04 PM
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Good article. I am disappointed that none of the IPOs has yet figured a way to be truly fair to the small investor. There have been a number fo schemes, but nothing which has really caught on.

BigJim
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
BigJim   12/30/2011 6:46:37 PM
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Yes it would be a great innovation to have a system that really encouraged broad participation by small investors.

Noreen Seebacher
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Blogger
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
Noreen Seebacher   12/30/2011 7:05:56 PM
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While it's hard to battle that feeling that you're "missing out, "it's worth repeating that IPOs are not usually the fast money tickets they seem. What's more, the bigger the first day jump, the better the chances you will be able to buy later at a better price.

erierunner
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
erierunner   12/31/2011 12:02:49 AM
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Funny how you always hear about the ones that struck gold with the IPO's.  The "It could have been me" theory is the same thought of the million people that invented the pet rock or chia pet before they were actually invented.  Bottom line, some people get lucky some of the time and there is no way around that.  We need to congratulate them for hitting it and go back to our normal way of life. 

philtheinvestor
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
philtheinvestor   12/31/2011 10:45:59 AM
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Or try to replicate that same success for ourselves. They say, the best way to succed is to do what successful people do...

Noreen Seebacher
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
Noreen Seebacher   12/31/2011 12:02:52 PM
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Phil, if you have the resources to compete with institutional investors, then go for us. The rest of us can just bide our time and wait for the IPOs to stabilize.

philtheinvestor
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
philtheinvestor   12/31/2011 5:31:05 PM
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That's my pitch for 2012 :)

Realistically, we don't have the big $$s but at least we can follow the trends and find good picks within the same scope just on a lower scale.

cat tail
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
cat tail   1/1/2012 7:11:45 PM
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I'd like to see more opportunities for small investors to participate not only in IPOs but in the market in general. Perhaps that starts with better economic education in high school so the concept of investing becomes more familiar to average people.

Scott Raynovich
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
Scott Raynovich   1/2/2012 9:46:28 AM
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The IPO market is the opposite of beneficial to the small investor. A good investment IPO market would mean that small-and-medium sized companies are going public with reasonable valuations and great long term prospects.

Instead, what we have are egregiously overprice large-cap IPOs whose propects for growing into their valuation are rather low. It's kind of disappointing. It's not as easy to find the "next Microsoft" anymore.

yalanand
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
yalanand   1/4/2012 4:16:40 AM
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Perhaps that starts with better economic education in high school so the concept of investing becomes more familiar to average people.

@cat tail, Why do you think its necessary to teach the concept of investment to high school students ? I think its better if students concentrate more on their studies rather than get addicted to stock markets, trading etc. Once they start earning they will automatically understand the need for investment.


Noreen Seebacher
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
Noreen Seebacher   1/4/2012 10:22:02 AM
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Investing is a part of financial literacy. But the concept is much broader -- and equally neglected -- in the US. A 2008 survey sponsored by Merrill Lynch found that less than half of the high school seniors surveyed and just 62% of college students could correctly answer basic economic questions.

The 31-question survey revealed that high school seniors have a lot to learn about important financial concepts. Among the findings in the survey:
  • 52% did not know that a credit card holder who only pays the minimum amount on monthly card balances will pay more in annual finance charges than a card holder who pays their balance in full;
  • Only 17 percent correctly answered that stocks are likely to yield higher returns than savings bonds, savings accounts and checking accounts over the next 18 years even though there has never been an 18-year period where this wasn't  true;
  • 60% were unaware they could lose their health insurance if their parents become unemployed.
  • Only 36% think a house financed with a fixed-rate mortgage is a good hedge against a sudden increase in inflation, compared with 45% in 2006.

So until students understand basic economic concepts, they won't be very prudent investors.

cat tail
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
cat tail   1/4/2012 10:30:31 AM
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Yes, that's my point Noreen. So many people hear IPO and get all excited -- but they don't even understand what an IPO is or how the odds of profiting from investing in it are low. If they had better economic education -- from childhood into their adult lives -- then they would be better equipped to assess various investments in a logical and rational way.

I think some people today view investing as an extension of gambling: a roll of the dice, a toss of the coin, something that is determined only by luck instead of thought and skill.

driven
User Rank
Iron
Re: Nobody has cracked the code
driven   1/4/2012 10:59:59 AM
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It would be nice if high school grads just understood the differences between credit and debit, and why it's better to use one over the other for online purchases. If they knew the basic stuff like that, I'd feel confident they'd pick up investing strategies down the line. But the average person seems afraid of anything related to finances or economics, increasing the odds they he will become a victim of a fraud or scam somewhere along the way.

Scott Raynovich
User Rank
Blogger
Nice Update
Scott Raynovich   12/30/2011 11:08:43 PM
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Great IPO update Noreen!

Bullseye
User Rank
Iron
Pets.com bust
Bullseye   12/31/2011 7:46:34 PM
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You brought back bad memories of owning pets.com and toys.com both companies I thought had a future. Wish I had a crystal ball.

Noreen Seebacher
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Pets.com bust
Noreen Seebacher   1/1/2012 4:21:43 PM
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They sure SEEMED like they had a future, didn't they?

Dex
User Rank
Iron
Re: Pets.com bust
Dex   1/1/2012 7:02:20 PM
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I think a lot of us got duped by that stupid sock puppet.

Jacob
User Rank
Iron
IPO for long run
Jacob   1/3/2012 3:58:07 AM
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1 saves
Noreen, any investment through IPO or in equity is beneficial, in long term run. But In short term we had seen that trading happens even much below than the face value. So for long term investment IPO's are the best way to get a share in any company at the minimum cost, which can have a better yield in long run.

cat tail
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPO for long run
cat tail   1/3/2012 7:17:24 AM
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Are you kidding Jacob? It could take an investor years to recoup the first day IPO price -- if the company survives at all!

Jacob
User Rank
Iron
Re: IPO for long run
Jacob   1/3/2012 7:37:20 AM
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1 saves
cat tail, i think you are talking about NFO-New Fund Offer. IPO's are issuing by companies already in market for a long time and with a proven track record. As i mentioned, any equity investments can fetch you a good return in long term run.

Noreen Seebacher
User Rank
Blogger
Re: IPO for long run
Noreen Seebacher   1/3/2012 9:28:28 AM
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No Jacob, that's not the case in the US. Are you in another country? Perhaps the system is different where you are. IPOs in the US are often issued by companies that have never made a profit, and have very little historical data to support an investment.

Jacob
User Rank
Iron
Re: IPO for long run
Jacob   1/3/2012 11:00:39 PM
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1 saves
Noreen, am from an Asian country and here IPO is only meant for companies having proven track record, both in financial and marker aspect. If it's a start up company, they can opt for bonds and debentures for financial matters.

yalanand
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPO for long run
yalanand   1/4/2012 4:08:35 AM
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Noreen, am from an Asian country and here IPO is only meant for companies having proven track record, both in financial and marker aspect.

@Jacob, are you sure about this ? Atleast in India this is not the case. SEBI which is stock regulator in India does a poor job of scrutinizing the companies which apply for IPO.

yalanand
User Rank
Platinum
Re: IPO for long run
yalanand   1/4/2012 4:04:58 AM
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IPOs in the US are often issued by companies that have never made a profit, and have very little historical data to support an investment.

@Noreen, this is the same case in India as well. More than 70% of the 2011 IPO stocks gave negative returns to the investors (some even gave return of -90%).  I was big fan of IPO market because you could have made quick bucks, but after 2011 IPO performance I am convinced that IPO market is pretty dangerous place to invest in.


Scott Raynovich
User Rank
Blogger
Re: IPO for long run
Scott Raynovich   1/3/2012 9:17:27 AM
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Jacob -- I don't really understand what you mean by this:

"Noreen, any investment through IPO or in equity is beneficial, in long term run."



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