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Hold the Housing Recovery Talk... for Now

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Dex
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Iron
No money, no improvement
Dex   4/20/2012 9:02:59 AM
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We're not going to see a recovery until two things happen: 1. wages start picking up (people may be getting jobs, but you can't get a mortgage on minimum wage) and 2) banks start using realistic credit guidelines. The whole situation as is right now is a terrible catch-22

cat tail
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Platinum
Re: No money, no improvement
cat tail   4/20/2012 9:11:01 AM
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The banks are throttling any chance for real recovery with lending guidelines that make almost everyone unqualified. They have no incentive to lend and don't give a hoot about the impact of their actions.

tokyogai
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Re: No money, no improvement
tokyogai   4/20/2012 9:15:08 AM
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That is part of the problem- the other part is appraisals. I have talked with many real estate people and they say the biggest obsticle in getting loans is low appraisals. Next comes the borrowers and down payment requirements. Apparently the appraisers were stung by the banks and now if there is any question, they go lower.

Scott Raynovich
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Blogger
Re: No money, no improvement
Scott Raynovich   4/20/2012 10:18:14 AM
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The appraisals are a HUGE problem!! Just as when the bubble was going they were appraising too high now they are lowballing everything.

I think I've chronicled my adventures with banks and real estate here on the site but there are even some more developements. Three years ago I bought a foreclosure. It was a screaming deal, and I knew it was below market. Last year I refinanced the first mortgage. This year I refinanced the a second mortgage. I was trying to free up more cash flow and credit because 1) Rates are really low 2) I knew the way the banks work, you want the credit now, not later 3) I may use the equity credit to make investments and/or another real estate purchase.

During all of this period I looked at 26 different houses, met with numerous real estate agents, and three different banks. Here is some of the stuff that happened:

1) My primary residence, which was bought well below market in a foreclosrure sale, has been appraised four times in the last two years (I didn't pay for any of these). The difference in the appraisal values has been as wide as 30%. In fact, the same bank hired two different appraisals because they didn't like the first one -- get this -- because it was "too high."

2) I priced the mid-point of the appraisal against the replacement cost I was given in an appraisal by the insurance company. The insurance company told me the bank appraisal was 30% below the replacement cost (cost to rebuild) the home. And this didn't include the price of the land!

3) One bank appraiser last October gave me a good number. It made me happy. Then the aforementioned bank hired another appraiser three months later. He used the exact same comps. No other homes had sold during that period. He came up with a price 30% lower. This was also, as I mentioned, 30% below replacement value appraised by the insurance company (the first bank appraisal was exactly the same as the insurance company). One of the homes he used as a comp was only 1/2 mile away but was 1/2 the size of mine.

4) One of the refinancings -- usually quite a simple process -- took six months to close.

My conclusion after all of this is that the banks and appraisers are definitely gumming up the process.They don't really want you to refinance or buy a home, if possible. And after looking at three detailed appraisals in addition to an insurance appraisal, I cannot for the life of me figure out what the appraisers are doing. They are either incompetent or being told by the banks to deliberately lowball the numbers.

Yes, there is some leeway in making a market judgement. But there is no reason why you would get two different appraisals from the same bank within three months and have the second one be 30% below a reasonable comp or the insurance-appraised replacement value. It makes no sense at all.

tokyogai
User Rank
Platinum
Re: No money, no improvement
tokyogai   4/20/2012 10:31:39 AM
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Scott- your story is similar to what I am being told by agents here. Banks are really pushing for low appraisals and in many cases the appraisals are below the rebuilding cost- forgetting the value of the land. This really needs to get fixed before the market can do any meaningful recivery.

Scott Raynovich
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Blogger
Re: No money, no improvement
Scott Raynovich   4/20/2012 11:26:04 AM
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Yes, apparently the land is worthless. LOL. And according to the banks, it's feasible to build a new home at 30% less than what the insurance companies says. I guess they think they know what they are talking about.

Why should we have to carry the baggage of the banks' crappy balance sheets?!

Scott Raynovich
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Blogger
Re: No money, no improvement
Scott Raynovich   4/20/2012 11:31:36 AM
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Also, I have been tracking the local housing inventory. It has been shrinking, but of course like everywhere there is a fair amount of new construction from the boom on the market (empty). From the data I have seen existing homes inventory is getting tight, but the houses built at the end of the boom (2006-2007) are still there. But there has also been a pickup in new construction. I asked a local builder why this is happening and this is a paraphrase of what he said:

"It's cheaper to either buy an existing home or build a new one than buy one of the new homes that were built in 2007 at the top. If the banks own them in foreclosure or they are a short sale they don't want to sell them at a low price because then they have to write off money on the balance sheet."

In other words -- the economics are messed up because banks are afraid to mark down their own foreclosure inventory even though when you apply for a loan they want to give you the lowest possible appraisal.

And some banks wonder why people are angry at them?

Value Hiker
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Platinum
Re: No money, no improvement
Value Hiker   4/20/2012 11:45:01 AM
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Recently my next door neighbors sold their house, which is the same builder, same model, same year, comparable decoration. Here is my house valuation from different entities

1. The county give me an appraisal 15% higher than sale price

2. The Insurance give me an appraisal of rebuilt cost 20% above county's estimate

3. Mortgage company gave me an appraisal 15% below the sale price. The funny part is the appraisal did show the sale price of my next door neighbor, but they preferred to use the shortsale price of a house a few blocks away, which has different model, builder, and year.

If I can sell my house to the county and buy back from my mortgage company, what a wonderful world it will be.

 

Noreen Seebacher
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Blogger
Re: No money, no improvement
Noreen Seebacher   4/20/2012 12:07:58 PM
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The problem with the bank appraisals is that the numbers are being pulled down by foreclosures and short sales. They should be really basing the comps on only fair market sales.

Noreen Seebacher
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Blogger
Re: No money, no improvement
Noreen Seebacher   4/20/2012 12:09:14 PM
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in fact, the Case-Shiller stats are also including foreclosures and short sales. it seems like it would be more accurate to separate them out of the overall price stats.

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