One born every mintue......
TelecomFreq
4/13/2011 10:58:46 AM
As long as people are willing to buy into an idea that is too good to be true, there will be someone a tad shy on ethics willing to liberate them from their money.
There are some scams that are simply transparent. But then there are others that are complex enough to be truly scary, much like your examples. This is why before i invest in anything I do as much research as i can, sometimes a simple web search will turn up some startling finds.
With Friends Like Bernie Who Needs Enemies?
Street Smart
4/13/2011 12:03:00 PM
Noreen is right about everything she said in her Madoff post from the truth of ...if it sounds too good to be true... to the fact that the Madoff Emerald City was only pathetic psycho Bernie behind the curtain pulling levers.
But there is an additional element that I think made the Madoff's Ponzi scheme especially dangerous, and really differentiates him as a true sociopath. That is the fact that for three decades, Bernie Madoff relied on family and friends to perpetuate and grow his twisted scheme. Not only did he lie to those closest to him--he relied on friendships as his one surefire recruiting tool to lure friends into his web of destruction.
Think about that. That's not reading a prospectus. That's not watching an infomercial. That's playing golf or eating Sunday dinner or traveling to Europe or sitting across from your doctor at your annual physical and believing a TRUSTED friend who wants only THE BEST for you or your charitable cause by letting you in on this WONDERFUL investment.
How are we really supposed to gird our loins against that? What is Bernie really saying when he mocks that? "Hey, wife Ruth living as a homeless, shunned pauper because you believed in me...more fool you!" "Hey, son Mark who hanged himself on the second anniversary of the fraud as your toddler son slept in the next room....YOUR fault for not coping, loser!"
So, yes, we can always be more careful about investments. We can learn to buy nothing more than Girl Scout cookies from our friends. But the idea that we are fools to be human? The idea that believing our friends who thought they "had our backs" was wrong when all along it was Bernie who wanted to plunge a knife into them? I reject that.
Re: With Friends Like Bernie Who Needs Enemies?
jules58
4/13/2011 12:38:48 PM
Frenemies! I agree with this post entirely. Town and Country did a piece on the whole Bernie debacle that was on target as well. It seems we all have to watch our backs these days personally and financially. No one else is going to do it for you.
To good to be true - only when you can not understand it
Value Hiker
4/13/2011 2:19:46 PM
The Madoff's victims shall be blamed more on laziness than on greedy. If you believe "too good to be true" is always right, you won't hold your Berkshire shares from 1969 to now, as many long time bershire shareholders do. How can you tell the difference between Madoff and Buffett? Especially when Berkshire's average return is above 20%, comparing to the 10% return from Madoff's fund.
I think the key is whether you can understand the fund managers' method - how did they achieve the hefty return? For Berkshire, if you read the annual letter to shareholder, and check the portfolio, you can easily tell the excellent return was real, and the Buffett's method makes sense. For Madoff, did he ever bother to give investors an explanation on how he can consistantly return 10% over the years? No, he never did that. I would better the investors of Madoff's fund never bother asked the question either.
Until you become an independent thinker, you can not be confident in your financail decision. I checked the Form 13 of the funds managed by Gurus like: Warren Buffett, Thomas Gayner, Bill Miller, etc. It gives me very good ideas where to find opportunity, but you shall never blindly follow them. For Guru can make mistake, sometime big ones.
Re: To good to be true - only when you can not understand it
icebreaker1975
4/14/2011 12:31:32 PM
What? First of all, why do we even have to listen to interviews from Bernie Madoff anyway? I don't want to hear anything that he has to say, unless he is saying that he will recompense all of those people their hard earned money. He needs to just do his time and keep his mouth shut. If their is contributory negligence to be handed out, Madoff is about 99.999% responsible, and those who were duped out of their money bear the rest. Its crazy to think how long and how much money was siphoned from Madoff's victims.
but wait, it gets worse
Scott
4/14/2011 2:25:46 PM
So who are we gonna lock up when the Medicare and Social Security Ponzi schemes collapse?
Is it OK to defraud the unknowing?
tokyogai
4/14/2011 2:36:09 PM
I think old Bernie has a lot of bravado to say it is the fault of the victims. Does that mean it is OK to beat up a little old lady and take her money because she can not defend herself? I do not abide by the theory it is OK to do wrong if " they had it coming" because they were mislead or greedy.
I don't know why we even pay attention to this crook- he is locked away-- time to forget about him and let him live out his days away from anyone he can do damage to.
Is it OK to defraud the unknowing?
tokyogai
4/14/2011 2:36:10 PM
I think old Bernie has a lot of bravado to say it is the fault of the victims. Does that mean it is OK to beat up a little old lady and take her money because she can not defend herself? I do not abide by the theory it is OK to do wrong if " they had it coming" because they were mislead or greedy.
I don't know why we even pay attention to this crook- he is locked away-- time to forget about him and let him live out his days away from anyone he can do damage to.
Re: To good to be true - only when you can not understand it
Value Hiker
4/14/2011 6:30:42 PM
I fully agree that Madoff is shameless guy, especially after looking the video of victims like 90 year old Ben Lomond: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/07/ben-lomond-madoff-victim_n_164936.html.
But why so many people trust this guy? It can not be explained as simply as greedy. Too many people trust the SEC & Government will protect them from these con artists. But we know that SEC or Government fail miserably on their duties.
If you have seen the documentary movie "Inside Job", and you must ask the same question the director asked in this year Oscar ceremony: how can nobody be sent to prison for the financial doom of 2008?
Compared to the damage these investing banks & mortgage companies did to US economy and regular people, Madoff's ponzi scheme is a piece of cake. When Madoff saw these bad guys not only got away from their crimes, but also were rewarded with golden parachute and excessive severance package, there is enough reason for this old guy feeling his punishment was too harsh.
If you can not trust the government to protect your money, the only feasible alternative is to protect your money by yourself.
Re: Is it OK to defraud the unknowing?
Broadway
4/15/2011 2:25:35 PM
I agree with @tokyogai: its shameful that two otherwise superior media brands have stooped to these jailhouse interviews with madoff. The man had his time to defend himself in court. He should now be left to rot in the pen. As for the gov not prosecuting anyone for the meltdown, nyt has a great story on this, either today or yesterday. What it amounts to is proof that wall st has both the Ds and the Rs paid off.
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