Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
Fred Goodman
12/20/2011 6:43:13 PM
This is my entire point Noreen. I have no problem with people earning as much as they can. However, I have great problem with the "chosen" people earning more than the rest because they are chosen by government to be aided, usually because they contribute to campaigns.
Universities subsidize government either by teaching students government idealogy that helps government get reelected, doing research that helps them support unpopular programs, or by popularizing programs that cannot be proven to be worthwhile without their evidence, some of which is made up.
I can give examples of all of the above but chose not to since that would alienate half the population and get approval from the other half. So everyone should pick his/her own example, it's not difficult.
Universities are particularly egregious because those supported are getting their support from those least able to afford it, the students. Then the students are being supported by taxpayers and the government is able to crow about how they are contributing to education, which is as important as motherhood and apple pie, to get back to the title of my post.
The "chosen" people are currently different from those chosen historically in this country. You have only to look at who receives the biggest pensions, has the safest jobs and receives the largest hourly wage for a job requiring average skill and average training. It is certainly not the nursing profession, which is still underpaid both nominally and based on the difficulty of training, the terrible hours and the nature of the task.
The difference is that one is publicly funded and one is not. Should that be a factor in the compensation range?
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
Broadway
12/20/2011 5:41:08 PM
I think if you asked college presidents why they deserve so much, you'd get the same answer as you get from corporate CEOs: that they are in the highest pressure grinding jobs that few people volunteer for let alone are able to actually pull off.
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
Scott Raynovich
12/20/2011 5:05:31 PM
We've covered the whole "college bubble" idea here, but I think we need to do more. As Fred points out, some University presidents make a lot of dough in the name of public education. At the same time, tuition is becoming less and less affordable. What's going on here? Well, like it or not, higher education is a business. It's it's been financed largely by controversial student loan programs, many of which are subsidized by the government.
Hmm, let's see, does that sound familiar? Costs growing out of pace with inflation? Financed by a possible credit bubble? Sounds a lot like the housing debacle no?
You know Fred I don't begrudge anyone earning whatever salary he or she can command. However, there is a domino effect here when someone at a public institution earns such a large amount of compensation. That triggers increases to VPs and the like, which ultimately results in tuition increases -- which encourages the state and federal governments to maintain or increase student grant and loan programs. It's a vicious cycle, and neither the students nor the taxpayers appear to win.
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
cat tail
12/20/2011 4:21:26 PM
That seems excessive to me -- at least at public institutions.
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
Fred Goodman
12/20/2011 3:56:26 PM
Let's move a bit away from teachers and professors since they are considered special, and instead let's look at the salaries of university presidents. Their primary function is to raise money for the endownments and they are very well rewarded.
In 2007-2008 one third of presidents at public universities earned more than 1/2 million per year. The president of Ohio State took home $1.3 million in 2008 including a $310 thousant performance bonus. The president of Northwestern received 1.7 million in the same year.
So, if we are complaining about the unfairness of compensation we should certainly include these highly paid people along with the "criminals" in the corporate world. We should be especially upset when we consider the fact that tuitions are rising at at least twice the rate of inflation and taxpayers are being asked to subsidize student expenses.
If you want to read more, click here.
I know the argument is that teacher's work long days. But really, how many professionals do you know who work short days? Aren't we all working 12 hour days -- or longer -- and aren't most of us doing it year round (with the exception of 2 or 3 weeks off for vacation?)
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
Tenacious
12/20/2011 8:04:40 AM
I know some really dedicated teachers work 12 hour days, consistently. But many more do not. Consider this: National data shows that on average teachers work fewer hours per week than people in other professions–nearly three hours a week less. That's according to this 2008 analysis from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The analysis is based on interviews from 2003–2006 conducted as part of the American Time Use Survey.
The data includes both time in the classroom and time spent grading papers at home. It doesn't include vacations and doesn't account for the intensity of different types of work.
 I
Re: Re : Who Says Making a Pie Is Easy?
cat tail
12/20/2011 7:46:43 AM
Given that most taxpayers work 12 months a year, why can't public teachers, too? In most locations now, teachers make as much or more than other public employees like police and firefighters. So why not provide them with similar vacation benefits, and have them work even when classes are not in schedule? They could offer extra support for students who need it, work on administrative tasks, organize lesson plans -- I'm sure there are plenty of things that need to be done.
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