Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Fred Goodman
3/15/2012 12:53:10 PM
I missed the point Scott, in my reply to your comment that "The difference between the references is that Letterman's is funny."
The fact that Letterman is funny does not justify him to call Sarah Palin a slut while at the same time Limbaugh is criticized for using the same word applied to Ms. Fluke.
Are we now to weigh the degree of 'funnyness' between Maher and Letterman and thereby justify the use of the C-word by Maher versus the use of the Slut-word by Letterman?
Let's just apply same standards of decency to all concerned when they use improper language against any person, or decide it is okay for all commentators and comedians to say anything they wish. Let's stop hiding behind phony outrage when a Liberal woman is maligned and chuckle when a Conservative woman is afforded the same disrespect.
However, if you want the thread to end, so be it.
Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Scott Raynovich
3/15/2012 12:49:23 PM
So let's get back to the markets.
Gold rallying! Will my bottom call today be right?
Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Fred Goodman
3/15/2012 12:37:51 PM
We agree there Scott, I had no faith in it from the start. That's why I've tried so hard to air the other side. The point is there is plenty of blame to go around and the selective placement of it on one personality while ignoring the shortcomings of others makes it lose all crediblity.
Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Noreen Seebacher
3/15/2012 11:26:41 AM
I wish Letterman would do more stupid pet tricks. That was my favorite thing on his show.
Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Scott Raynovich
3/15/2012 11:18:24 AM
Ah man, we are picking on Letterman now? I've lost faith in this thread.
The difference between the references is that Letterman's is funny.
Re: Speak much evil, write much evil, but don't listen to Rush
Fred Goodman
3/14/2012 9:41:32 PM
While we are criticizing people for referring to woman in a demeaning manner, I thought you might like to include this top ten list of Letterman's -- look at number 3.
Of course he's just a comedian and the subject of his ire is a "public figure," which presumably makes it okay.
Re: Censorship forces brilliant minds into the fantasy underground
Tenacious
3/14/2012 11:05:11 AM
We need someone like Rod Serling to make some radio shows. That would be radio worth tuning in to hear again.
Re: Censorship forces brilliant minds into the fantasy underground
Noreen Seebacher
3/14/2012 11:00:55 AM
Interesting stuff about Rod Serling. Here's an exerpt from an interview he did with Mike Wallace in 1959 when he discusses advertisers and censorship:
Rod Serling: Pre-censorship is a practice, I think, of most television writers. I can't speak for all of them. This is the prior knowledge of the writer of those areas which are difficult to try to get through and so a writer will shy away from writing those things which he knows he's going to have trouble with on a sponsorial or an agency level. We practice it all the time. We just do not write those themes which we know are going to get into trouble.
Mike Wallace: Who's the culprit? Is it the network? The sponsor? It sure is not the FCC.
Rod Serling: No, it's certainly not the FCC, ideally speaking, of course. It's a combination of culprits in this case, Mike. It's partly network. It's principally agency and sponsor. In many ways I think it's the audience themselves.
Mike Wallace: How do you mean?
Rod Serling: Well, I'll give you an example. About a year ago, roughly eleven or twelve months ago, on the Lassie show-this is a story usually told by Sheldon Leonard who was then associated with the show-Lassie was having puppies. And I have two little girls, then aged five and three, who are greatly enamored with this beautiful Collie and they watched the show with great interest. And Lassie gave birth to puppies, and Mike, it was probably one of the most tasteful and delightful and warm things depicting what is this wondrous thing that is birth. And after this show, I think they were many congratulations all around because it was a lovely show, the sort of thing I'd love my kids to watch to show them what is the birth process and how marvelous it is. They got many, many cards and letters. Sample card, from the deep South this was: if I wanted my kids to watch sex shows, I wouldn't have them turn on that. I could take them to burlesque shows. And as a result of the influx of mail, many of the cards, incidentally as Sheldon tells it, were postmarked at identical moments all in the same handwriting, but each was counted as a singular piece of mail. And as a result, the directive went down that there would be no shows having anything to do with puppies, that is in the actual birth process. Well, obviously, it is this wild lunatic fringe of letter-writers that greatly affect what the sponsor has in mind.
Mike Wallace: You can understand the position of the sponsor, can't you?
Rod Serling: In many ways I suppose I can. He's there to push a product.
Mike Wallace: He has a considerable stake, thus, in what goes on the air.
Rod Serling: Most assuredly, and in those cases where there is a problem of public taste, in which there is a concern for eliciting negative response from a large mass of people, I can understand why the guys are frightened. I don't understand, Mike, for example, other evidences and instances of intrusion by sponsors. For example, on Playhouse 90, not a year ago, a lovely show called Judgment at Nuremberg, I think probably one of the most competently done and artistically done pieces that 90's done all year. In it, as you recall, mention was made of gas chambers and the line was deleted, cut off the soundtrack. And it mattered little to these guys that the gas involved in concentration camps was cyanide, which bore no resemblance, physical or otherwise, to the gas used in stoves. They cut the line.
Mike Wallace: Because the sponsor was...
Rod Serling: Did not want that awful association made between what was the horror and the misery of Nazi Germany with the nice chrome wonderfully antiseptically clean beautiful kitchen appliances that they were selling. Now this is an example of sponsor interference which is so beyond logic and which is so beyond taste-this I rebel against.
Mike Wallace: You've got a new series coming up called The Twilight Zone. You are writing, as well as acting executive producer on this one. Who controls the final product, you or the sponsor?
Rod Serling: We have what I think, at least theoretically, anyway, because it hasn't really been put into practice yet, a good working relationship, where in questions of taste and questions of the art form itself and questions of drama, I'm the judge, because this is my medium and I understand it. I'm a dramatist for television. This is the area I know. I've been trained for it. I've worked for it for twelve years, and the sponsor knows his product but he doesn't know mine. So when it comes to the commercials, I leave that up to him. When it comes to the story content, he leaves it up to me.
Mike Wallace: Has nothing been changed in the...
Rod Serling: We changed, in eighteen scripts, Mike, we have had one line changed, which, again, was a little ludicrous but of insufficient basic concern within the context of the story, not to put up a fight. On a bridge of a British ship, a sailor calls down to the galley and asks in my script for a pot of tea, because I believe that it's constitutionally acceptable in the British Navy to drink tea. One of my sponsors happens to sell instant coffee, and he took great umbrage, or at least minor umbrage anyway, with the idea of saying tea. Well, we had a couple of swings back and forth, nothing serious, and we decided we'd ask for a tray to be sent up to the bridge. But in eighteen scripts, that's the only conflict we've had.
Mike Wallace: Well...
Rod Serling: They passed...
Mike Wallace: They passed what?
Rod Serling: I mean, every script.
Mike Wallace: Is pre-censorship, though, involved? Are you simply writing easy?
Rod Serling: In this particular area, no, because we're dealing with a half hour show which cannot probe like a 90, which doesn't use scripts as vehicles of social criticism. These are strictly for entertainment.
Mike Wallace: These are potboilers.
Rod Serling: Oh, no. Un-uh. I wouldn't call them potboilers at all. No, these are very adult, I think, high-quality half hour, extremely polished films. But because they deal in the areas of fantasy and imagination and science-fiction and all of those things, there's no opportunity to cop a plea or chop an axe or anything.
Censorship forces brilliant minds into the fantasy underground
AskAsa
3/13/2012 10:49:38 PM
I think Marvin's point was about much more than whether or not you like Rush. These sponsors need to grow some backbone or put themselves at the mercy of every instant protest or boycott that comes along. Marvin brought up the gas chambers example. Many people don't know that this type of interference from sponsors is exactly what drove Rod Serling from writing serious drama to Science Fiction. For instance, the line "Got a match?" was deleted because one of the sponsors for Serling's masterpiece "Requiem For A Heavyweight" was Ronson Lighters.
While speaking about The Twilight Zone, Serling told Mike Wallace, ""I found that it was all right to have Martians saying things Democrats and Republicans could never say."
Rush Limbaugh used to be funny.
Back in the day, before he had hearing problems, I'd occasionally trip over him on the car radio. He was as engaging as Gene Shepherd so long as he was telling a story, not pontificating about politics. Back in the day, he was one of the greats on the radio. It sounded as if he were speaking personally to the listener.
When his hearing failed, something went wrong with his performance. That is understandable. It's why broadcasters wear headsets when they talk on the radio. They need to hear themselves in order to modulate their voices.
The comments about the young lady who testified before congress were unwarranted and mean-spirited. In some states, including New York, an attack on the sexual character of a woman is prima-facie libel or slander.
Rush can take exception to the young lady's position, but to characterize her as a prostitute is wrong. What's more, it's bad radio. We don't need to go any further into the gutter on the airwaives than we are now. Anyone who listens to Howard Stern knows what I mean.
Marvin is correct in that advertisers should show some fortitude. But advertisers also have the right to choose the environment in which they place their commercials. It seems that some of them, for whatever reason, decided that Rush's program is no longer going to enhance the luster of their brands.
Marvin and I are both old enough to remember McCarthyism. That was a different story. The "Red Channels" guys and the hangers-on of the red witchhunt were mostly people in entertainment who wanted to wreck the careers of actors, writers, and directors who were better than they were. Communism was just an excuse. Ward Bond, the movie actor, was one of the guys who could "clear" someone who was named in "Red Channels." I can't recall -- and I am a movie critic -- any of his roles.
In the Rush case, it is not the politics. It is the sense of common decency -- or the fear of their customers' sense of common decency -- that moves marketers.
The blogs and comments posted on Investor Uprising do not reflect the views of Investor Uprising, PRNewswire, or its sponsors. Investor Uprising, PRNewswire, and its sponsors do not assume responsibility for any comments, claims, or opinions made by authors and bloggers. They are no substitute for your own research and should not be relied upon for trading or any other purpose.
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